Lasher Discussion Thread

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VagueNote
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby VagueNote » Mon May 02, 2016 6:12 pm

Pollo Jack wrote:Honestly, if the numbers that were given are right then the lasher is fine.


That's corect, it is just fine, the problem is that no one knows how to use it right; the weapon isn't as strate foword compaired to the MGC or the JH so people get discureged fast and get angry easaly. I only fownd out how to use the Lasher by looking at the wiki numbers, yet most people don't do that, they just abandon the Lasher and then later rant about it. There are also those who complain about how the Lasher used to be, this of corse not making sense because it is not relavent to the curent game. In this Thread I plan to make it know how the Lasher should be used, and put down those who rant without any good reason.
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Ryathorz
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Mon May 02, 2016 7:10 pm

VagueNote wrote:Nope, check for your self if you don't believe me.
I went into VR and the cone of fire expanded with the first couple of shots - though it did seem to cap out tighter than the mk1 but its been a long time since I used one (the CoF image I posted is very outdated).
Is that not how its been since the balance pass way back?


Pollo Jack wrote:Honestly, if the numbers that were given are right then the lasher is fine.
The numbers should always be seen as supplementary to actual gameplay - to help explain why something performs as it does, not to indicate in of themselves how something performs.

For example - the sweeper takes longer to kill infantry as short range than a gauss by the numbers. It is however a better gun for killing infantry at short range.


VagueNote wrote: In this Thread I plan to make it know how the Lasher should be used, and put down those who rant without any good reason.
I do hope it's going to be more than 'stand close to MCG, stand away from jackhammer' :p
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby VagueNote » Tue May 03, 2016 2:15 pm

Ryathorz wrote:
VagueNote wrote: In this Thread I plan to make it know how the Lasher should be used, and put down those who rant without any good reason.
I do hope it's going to be more than 'stand close to MCG, stand away from jackhammer' :p


I will atempt to make a more explicet answer than that :P so ask what you will I will answer in as great detail as I can. About the lashers COF seeming differant that last I tried it: I have come to the conclusion that it must be the higher rezalution that I've been using, I still find it easyer though... hmmm..., maybe I've just gotten generaly better at playing FPS games :P.
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Naeadil
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby Naeadil » Tue May 03, 2016 4:45 pm

The Lasher is the hardest HA to use by far, and suffers even more at longer ranges than the Jackhammer and Sweeper due to the fact it shoots projectiles and is not hitscan. For some reason, SOE/DBG likes to make hitscan shotguns have an absurd effective range. You can particularly abuse the Jackhammer and Sweeper's by crouching each shot while strafing. I've been accused of CoF hack a ton because of this, but anyone can do it.

Now the Lasher orbs are really good if they connect, but the difficulty of using this weapon compared to the MCG and JH is so immense it seems like it's terrible. In practice, it kind of is, unless used close up against MCG and kind of close/medium'ish range against JH.

TLDR: JH, MCG, and Sweeper are much more versatile when used properly, and much easier to use.
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby VagueNote » Tue May 03, 2016 5:16 pm

Naeadil wrote:The Lasher is the hardest HA to use by far, and suffers even more at longer ranges than the Jackhammer and Sweeper due to the fact it shoots projectiles and is not hitscan. For some reason, SOE/DBG likes to make hitscan shotguns have an absurd effective range. You can particularly abuse the Jackhammer and Sweeper's by crouching each shot while strafing. I've been accused of CoF hack a ton because of this, but anyone can do it.

Now the Lasher orbs are really good if they connect, but the difficulty of using this weapon compared to the MCG and JH is so immense it seems like it's terrible. In practice, it kind of is, unless used close up against MCG and kind of close/medium'ish range against JH.

TLDR: JH, MCG, and Sweeper are much more versatile when used properly, and much easier to use.


I agree that it is more difficult than the JH and MCG, but I won't conseed that it is terribly hard, or even hader than one weeks actual practice (that is for any one who is already used to FPS games and is running 60 frames and less than 150 ping). Of course in order to master it in a week, you need to know what you are saposed to do in the first place. I will be working on finding the numbers for the adaquit distances you should take in mind when fighting with it, and put those distnaces in a post explaining exactly how to use the Lasher well. As for using sweeper and JH at longer ranges, all I can say is that it is true, it is posible, but I don't recomend doing it unless that person is a bad player. Normaly if you crouch to many times when straifing your movement will grow slugish (not entierly sure but it's my specutlaion after trying and failing and not practiccing much afterwords) which makes it easyer for your oponent to get his hits on you. So crouchin each shot is only realy practicable with the sweeper, doe to it's low fire rate, with the JH I don't think that would work out, though it's true that you could exploit it by crouching every 2 shots or so with JH. Though i'm only talking about rexo, maybe it's differant with agile exo sute due to it's faster movement speed... I would also like to ask when was the last time you actualy played with the lasher for any extended period of time, have you even practiced more than an houre? Sound to me that you tryed out the lasher techneques that I put out there a long time ago only for 30 min. befor getting frusturated by being killed and giving up.
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Naeadil
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby Naeadil » Tue May 03, 2016 6:28 pm

The Lasher is immensely harder to use than the JH and MCG. Not because it is hard to use, but because the JH, MCG, and Sweeper are ridiculously easy to use. The cone of fire is extraordinarily forgiving in this game, making aim required very little. Lasher is immensely more difficult to use because it actually requires you to not only aim, but also lead your target. In an environment where people heavily warp and have unpredictable movement, this further increases the challenge.

Again, I have to reiterate, the Lasher isn't hard to use, it's just not the insanely trivial weapon the JH and MCG are.

The Lasher is great against MCG users pointblank because it takes out the "hard part" of the Lasher at the same time as fighting them at an effective range.
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Wed May 04, 2016 4:45 am

Naeadil wrote:For some reason, SOE/DBG likes to make hitscan shotguns have an absurd effective range.
This is in part due to shotgun pellets having no damage loss over range, it's all pellet spread.
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby VagueNote » Wed May 04, 2016 12:10 pm

Naeadil wrote:The Lasher is immensely harder to use than the JH and MCG. Not because it is hard to use, but because the JH, MCG, and Sweeper are ridiculously easy to use. The cone of fire is extraordinarily forgiving in this game, making aim required very little. Lasher is immensely more difficult to use because it actually requires you to not only aim, but also lead your target. In an environment where people heavily warp and have unpredictable movement, this further increases the challenge.

Again, I have to reiterate, the Lasher isn't hard to use, it's just not the insanely trivial weapon the JH and MCG are.

The Lasher is great against MCG users pointblank because it takes out the "hard part" of the Lasher at the same time as fighting them at an effective range.


Yes indeed, this is more accurate explanation of things.
As for "people heavily warping and have unpredictable movement" this indeed also makes the Lasher seem hard, but there is the thing, People who are heavily warping have a predictable pattern. In order to "warp" correctly, you HAVE to follow a certain pattern, and this pattern happens to coincide with the fire rate of the Lasher :D . The time it takes them to warp from one side and then the other is exactly the same as the fire rate of the Lasher. So, if you start shooting at him directly in the middle of his strafing pattern, by the time he goes to next side and back to the middle your next shot will be out and in his face; the same will happen over and over until you or him dies. So all you need to do in order to counter straif warping, is to not move your aim away from the middle of his strafing pattern unless he stops straif warping if he stops it's easy enough. This technique of course is only necessary if he is warping and you are fighting at mid range; if he isn't worping he will be moving slowly enough to ame easily, and obviously if you are too close you won't have the ability to shoot in the middle of his straif pattern; besides if you're close enough you won't need to.
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby VagueNote » Thu May 05, 2016 10:52 am

VagueNote wrote:
Naeadil wrote:The Lasher is immensely harder to use than the JH and MCG. Not because it is hard to use, but because the JH, MCG, and Sweeper are ridiculously easy to use. The cone of fire is extraordinarily forgiving in this game, making aim required very little. Lasher is immensely more difficult to use because it actually requires you to not only aim, but also lead your target. In an environment where people heavily warp and have unpredictable movement, this further increases the challenge.

Again, I have to reiterate, the Lasher isn't hard to use, it's just not the insanely trivial weapon the JH and MCG are.

The Lasher is great against MCG users pointblank because it takes out the "hard part" of the Lasher at the same time as fighting them at an effective range.


Yes indeed, this is more accurate explanation of things.
As for "people heavily warping and have unpredictable movement" this indeed also makes the Lasher seem hard, but there is the thing, People who are heavily warping have a predictable pattern. In order to "warp" correctly, you HAVE to follow a certain pattern, and this pattern happens to coincide with the fire rate of the Lasher :D .


I discovered yesterday that they can use slightly different patterns, this obviously complicates things, but I found a way to counter that too. It's the same principle, you aime generally in the middle of where he is strafing, and as soon as starts strafing in the other direction calculate where he will be when you're shot is out. This takes knowing the fire rate of the Lasher really well, so it will be harder to master, but it is possible to do it by pure instinct or by experimentation. The difference in your initial aiming point and the next aiming point necessary when your opponent strafing changes isn't very much, so you should get away with just aiming slightly to the right if he goes a little further to the right than the usual straif pattern and vice versa.
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby TexasRanger » Mon May 09, 2016 1:17 am

Slightly bump the lashing damage- I believe now it is 2armor points- to 1hp and 2 armor.
Slightly bump the speed of the orb- by 3%.
Slightly increase the damage at the close distance- by 0.5% or even less (0.25%) -after these modifications lasher should compete with jh at a close range and with mcg on a long-range.

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