Lasher Discussion Thread

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VagueNote
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Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby VagueNote » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Here you can feel free to discuss the Lasher (du but I had to put it). This of course means discusing why or why not the Lasher should be nerfed how to use the Lasher evectivly ect.

Happy ranting.
Last edited by VagueNote on Mon May 02, 2016 6:18 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Sulferix
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby Sulferix » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:25 am

Man I don't have time right now but I will go as in depth as my brain let's me in a few days :D
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VagueNote
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby VagueNote » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:10 am

Sulferix wrote:Man I don't have time right now but I will go as in depth as my brain let's me in a few days :D


Looking fowerd to it :D
Last edited by VagueNote on Mon May 02, 2016 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The one obsessed with skill, wisdom, and music.

Ineficiance, is the bane of my existance.

Better to die, for the nubs that don't try.

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VagueNote
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby VagueNote » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:32 am

I'm going to fix the rules for this discussion thread since things are turning out differently.
Last edited by VagueNote on Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
The one obsessed with skill, wisdom, and music.

Ineficiance, is the bane of my existance.

Better to die, for the nubs that don't try.

VS Famenofsense BR 21 CR 2
NC Bukitoflard BR 10 CR 1
TR FamineOfSense BR 10 CR 0
p0intman
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby p0intman » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:26 pm

I've moved this to PSF discussion, as its more relevant to balancing the game.
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Ryathorz
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:07 pm

VagueNote wrote:This doesn't seem to be working out so I will ask that this may be delete it.
Yeah, i'm the wrong person to ask about the lasher (unless you want the numbers).

I had it certed when I first played because I was on a 56k modem and 'firing in the same direction as everyone else' was a viable strategy with the original lash.

When I got a better connection I stuck mainly to MA rifles to free up certs for vehicles and support. Between the pulsar buff and the lasher nerf I never felt the need to touch it again.

-------------------------------------

The original lasher was something of an area denial weapon to be used in numbers. The primary problem it had was that the bolt travelled so slowly that if you were guarding a door (in a tower for instance) then an opponent could be easily in and out before the first shot got anywhere near them, as a result you got lasher spam - shooting at the door in the hope of a target rather than shooting at an actual target.

Individually they were fairly ineffective weapons that you would just aim to jam into the back of another player and hold down the trigger with - at a distance the bolts moved too slowly and lost too much damage, and against MAX suits you needed about half a minute of firing and a spare box or two of ammo.

Basically it was used in doors like flak guns, fill the air and hope for the best. The general complains against it from both sides were that you couldn't do all that much else with it.

---
The mk2 lasher was overkill on each of the lashers weaknesses - faster (and IIRC more accurate) shots, devastating AV to the point where people were taking potshots and hovering aircraft with it, and a larger clip with the same lash meant that one player with a lasher was now a match for an MCG user within medium range (and still somewhat dangerous out to the full 90m with that lash and crouched accuracy), while groups of players were mowing through bases.

---
The mk3 (the current lasher) toned down the AV and the lash, and the VS players mostly abandoned it in favour of pulsars and shotguns. I'm sure players with more extensive recent experience of the game will have a better view on how it handles now that there has been time to get used to its quirks.
Pollo Jack
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby Pollo Jack » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:55 pm

Like you said it is best at area denial. This is its purpose, it lashes around corners and into cubbies. It is still HA and needs a damage buff for the sub 10 m range. It can have a falloff to its normal damage outside that range. Here is my reasoning.

Rexo recieves no HP damage from a lash unless they are being hit by multiple lashers, I don't quite understand it but I remember taking 10 ap damage from a lash and 1-10 hp damage if there was another lasher hitting me with lashes. So 1v1 a miss that results in a lash is essentially no damage to a rexo.

1v1 Rexos JH has 1s TTK, MCG 1.33 TTK, Lasher 1.33 TTK. Both the MCG and JH are easier to aim than the lasher and the JH is hitscan while the MCGs bullets travel much faster. It is a safe bet that the lasher will have a higher real time TTK than the other two.
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:12 pm

Pollo Jack wrote:Rexo recieves no HP damage from a lash unless they are being hit by multiple lashers, I don't quite understand it but I remember taking 10 ap damage from a lash and 1-10 hp damage if there was another lasher hitting me with lashes.
Lashes don't combine AFAIK.

The old lash did half the damage a direct hit from the bolt would have - so up close you would have taken 4 health and 10 armour damage, at 25m it would be 2 health/10 armour, at 50m it would have been down to 0 health and 9 armour damage, and so on.

The new lash inflicts about a quarter of the direct hit potential, 8 armour damage at short range, 7 at 25m, 5 at 50m. The lash range itself might also be shorter.

-----

Assuming 100 health, rexo armour, and near point-blank damage(29 per shot), a rexo takes the full 6 shots to kill unless they start the fight with 45 armour or less - which is why lashing doesn't seem to kill things any faster whereas the old lash did actual health damage.


Lasher TTK is 1.25 (one shot every 0.25 seconds) against 100 armour/rexo. It falls to 1.5 at around 20 meters when the bolt damage falls to 26, 1.75 at 30m, 2 seconds at 40m, 3 seconds at 50m, 4 seconds at 60...

Of course you aren't exactly hitting much with a jackhammer at that distance either and the lasher will be spraying bolts around so widely that time to kill doesn't really count.
Up close enough to get the lasher's full damage is 30 per shot it can manage a 5 shot kill though (a medpack will bump that back up to 7)
Pollo Jack
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby Pollo Jack » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:37 pm

Ryathorz wrote:
Pollo Jack wrote:Rexo recieves no HP damage from a lash unless they are being hit by multiple lashers, I don't quite understand it but I remember taking 10 ap damage from a lash and 1-10 hp damage if there was another lasher hitting me with lashes.
Lashes don't combine AFAIK.

The old lash did half the damage a direct hit from the bolt would have - so up close you would have taken 4 health and 10 armour damage, at 25m it would be 2 health/10 armour, at 50m it would have been down to 0 health and 9 armour damage, and so on.

The new lash inflicts about a quarter of the direct hit potential, 8 armour damage at short range, 7 at 25m, 5 at 50m. The lash range itself might also be shorter.

-----

Assuming 100 health, rexo armour, and near point-blank damage(29 per shot), a rexo takes the full 6 shots to kill unless they start the fight with 45 armour or less - which is why lashing doesn't seem to kill things any faster whereas the old lash did actual health damage.


Lasher TTK is 1.25 (one shot every 0.25 seconds) against 100 armour/rexo. It falls to 1.5 at around 20 meters when the bolt damage falls to 26, 1.75 at 30m, 2 seconds at 40m, 3 seconds at 50m, 4 seconds at 60...

Of course you aren't exactly hitting much with a jackhammer at that distance either and the lasher will be spraying bolts around so widely that time to kill doesn't really count.
Up close enough to get the lasher's full damage is 30 per shot it can manage a 5 shot kill though (a medpack will bump that back up to 7)


Funny being on the receiving end more often than not and not understanding its damage. I loved using the thing in BDs and would save a couple just for that. I guess just buff the lash damage at sub 10 m then. 1.25 Sounds reasonable for it. Thank you for the numbers.
Ryathorz
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Re: Lasher Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:07 am

Pollo Jack wrote:I guess just buff the lash damage at sub 10 m then. 1.25 Sounds reasonable for it. Thank you for the numbers.
IIRC the lash itself doesn't work within 5m of the firer.

The original lash range was 5m from the orb. According to the 3.15.29 patch notes this was reduced though I don't know what the new lash range is or if the lash frequency was adjusted.

Not retested, but it's listed cone of fire is 6.2 degrees when standing (from about the third shot onwards) - wide enough to completely encircle another player at under 10m.
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